ANKLE
Alex Headlam · August 21, 2026 · A conversation.
The opening was spoken before the recorder. It is on this page, not on the tape. Listen jumps to the recording. Click a word to play from there. Pause and scroll back up to read. Scroll does not move the tape.
What problem does ANKLE solve, without mentioning any features?
Culture is becoming increasingly more ephemeral. And I think that is leading to a lot of decay in the things that we consume and the things that we create. Being able to create almost a library that people can engage with, but also develop and add to reliably with frontier technology, allows us to develop a culture that we want to interact with.
Instead of something as ephemeral as it is, something that you only experience through a screen at a certain point in time, or in passing by looking at the clothes somebody wears. There is so much that comes before us that brought us to this point. All of our favorite moments. How do we rediscover those things and take our favorite moments as our own input or thumbprint, if we so choose. And then filtering it through a system that can reliably compact and organize the cultural identity into something that we can use and build with. Build more of what we want to see and the world that we want to be in.
ANKLE enables culture to be something that is not only programmable but archivable and shareable, buildable and scalable.
Over the last two years, what shifted for you that made it clear ANKLE had to become an operating system and not just remain a coin?
I always knew that ANKLE had to become some sort of system. It was just that the meme coin at the time was the best way to articulate the concept and the idea, it being a sort of Dadaist artwork about the idea itself being the artwork. That is what memes are.
So when we said ANKLE and it was a meme coin it kind of felt that there was this latent meaning to it, that had to do itself with the idea of ideas. Then realized shortly that for an idea that is supposed to keep growing, to only stop at being a meme coin, it does not really do the idea much justice.
People are making coins for a system that does not exist. That is not how things work. We have the dollar and the operating system, the system that we are in, is America. When somebody says something like Doge or Pepe, what system is that operating in? A shared idea of value, but then what is that value attributive to? The fact that other people value it. I do not think that is good enough. And I think that is the shift that we are approaching.
The coin was how the idea first moved. The OS is where it gets to live. Ideas need an environment.
Before ANKLE, what felt missing from the internet for you?
What was really missing was the operating system. Online. The internet being the protocol itself and applications just housing and enabling extensions of that protocol. Where was the cohesive layer of identity and context and culture between those applications? It was missing.
I do not think the device operating system was enough. It just felt like only a few people were developing the operating system that we all use. And that operating system affecting our culture at large. When I feel like we should have been developing it at the same time.
this whole thing. I would have made it so epic. In five years somebody who had experienced ankle at this point in time looking back I want them to feel as though maybe this was the moment that created the other moments that enabled the version of the reality that they want to experience because hopefully in five years more of us will be in a reality that we want to be in and I can I can honestly say that that's not the case for a lot of people right now for a multitude of reasons and my my hope is that we can always look forward into a future that's brighter whether that's tomorrow or five years from now. That is
a solid north star. Okay here's the next step for you take those three pillars the problem the shift the five year hope and try answering each one in a single short line no qualifiers no caveats just one sentence each you don't have to
now yeah yeah yeah sure start distilling them now but you got to remind me what these things are right okay so the three things one what problem does ankle
solve two why did ankle okay remember we have to do it one by one so first thing is what problem does ankle solve exactly
ankle enables culture to be something that's not only programmable but archivable and shareable buildable and scalable instead of something that's as ephemeral as it is something that you only experience through a screen at a certain point in time or in passing by looking at the clothes somebody wears there's so much that comes before us that brought us to this point all of our favorite moments how do we rediscover those things and take our favorite moments and reintroduce them into our current time this is all to create the world that we want to live in that we dream of together
got it so for the first one a super tight version culture is fleeting ankle gives people a way to build preserve and evolve it intentionally how does that feel as the strict core
yeah yeah that's that sounds like a pretty good way to put it I mean that's the macro version of everything because that we're operating within those lines right there that box is where the ideas emerge from or fall into it's culture culture being a programmable surface
nice okay want to do the shift line next just one sentence on that coin to OS jump
okay yeah so from coin to OS I mean we started off as a meme coin because at that point in time in 2024 it was the best way to articulate the concept and the idea it being a sort of dataist artwork about the idea itself being the artwork that's what memes are so when we said ankle and it was a meme coin it kind of felt that there was this latent meaning to it that had to do itself with the idea of ideas as funny as this is confusing as that might seem at first that's the world that we live in but then realized shortly that for an idea that it's supposed to keep growing to only stop it being a meme coin it doesn't really um it doesn't really do it do the idea much justice ideas need environments ideas need other ideas to to bounce off to engage with to mold around to emerge through it needs a system it needs a system and I realize that that's what had to exist is a system instead of just the token because ideally this is not just either of those things a system or a token it's a movement and each of these things is a part of that a movement so
condensed shift line the coin spread the idea the OS gives it a place to live connect and grow does that land
yeah yeah yeah that sounds about right I mean you I mean it's so crazy when you really think about it like people are making coins for a system that doesn't exist that's not how things work right I mean we're in America right now we have the dollar and the operating system the system that we're in is America when somebody says something like Doge or Pepe what system is that operating in the system of us what exactly a shared idea of value but then what's that value attributed to the fact that other people value it I don't think that's good enough and I think that's the
sift that we're approaching let's hold that line so quick pulse check do you want to tackle the five year hope now or take a breather and come back
all right then here's the question five years from now when someone looks back at this moment what's the one thing you hope they realize this was take your time
I'm hoping that somebody looking back five years from now to the moment in which ankle is already out there they look back on the before and after the moment in which something like this didn't exist and then hopefully the moment in which that they're in right now which would be five years and they realize that they're in a world that they appreciate and they feel like they can participate and outside of just consumption and you know like I hope that they really feel like ankle was away or thing or a moment that brought them to that moment that they're enjoying in the five years from now right
so distilled I hope people look back and say this was one of the moments that made a better future buildable if that feels true that's your closing note end so it feels complete a few more questions when you say culture what do you mean by that exactly
culture as a sort of protocol that inevitably emerges once there are two or more people in our room I think culture starts off as an agreement that there is a system of belief or a way of life that we may not all um agree on but we're all experiencing it and we're all developing it at the same time but as time goes on as information comes in so fast and there's just so much data it feels like there's this collapse that's happening with culture where things are fragmented and nothing retains any meaning anymore and I often look back and I think of a moment that seemed to have been everything and so impactful but it feels so distant and out of reach now and I think to make culture something that we can directly interface with instead of just experience is important culture as a system culture as a protocol culture as a frequency culture as a movement even
next question then before ankle what felt missing from the internet for you
interesting enough I feel like everything was there but nothing was together it just felt like bunch of surfaces that had their own development and purpose you know that's the whole idea of applications but I guess what was really missing was the operating system online you know the internet being the protocol itself and applications just housing and enabling uh extensions of that protocol where was the cohesive layer of identity and context and culture between those applications it was missing and I don't think it was um I don't think our devices are enough I don't think the device the the devices operating system was enough to really cause the shift that at least I anticipated even though it did facilitate a lot of changes that are enjoyable and has brought us to this point I think for some reason there wasn't enough collective development of this operating system it just wasn't democratic enough it just felt like only a few people were developing the operating system that we all use and that operating system affecting our culture at large when I feel like we should have all had a say in how it's built maybe our own input or thumbprint if we so choose and then filtering it through a system that can reliably compact and organize the cultural identity it's something that we can use and build with build more of what we want to see and the world that we want to be in
that's clear and strong last one then why did you decide to build this yourself instead of waiting for someone else
I love that question literally I've tried I've tried to I've sat down with multiple people before and I've told them and I've asked them hey can you help me build this thing and they all gave up on it they all gave up on it and you know looking back now it makes sense because this is a very hard thing to build it's not intuitive enough I mean it came intuitively to me because it had taken me a lot of sitting down and having to operate first principles what am I trying to experience what is somebody else trying to experience what are what are the things that are missing from this experience that we're already having you know so going down that path you know I also realized that outside of me developing this there was just so many inefficiencies and hangups in my reality and I created this system as a way to combat those things to be able to problem solve my reality and it resulted in me developing a bunch of surfaces and applications to assist me with that and hoping that these things could also be extended as a resource to other people to do the same thing this is also something that ties back to what I said about culture being programmable this is why it's important this is because we can tackle problems this way and have solutions to problems by having solutions to them which comes like this I built a cultural operating system because no one else would no one else would do it so I just have to I could have waited all my life and I feel like no one would have done it so it just one day I just you know I mean I've been brainstorming this for years now but um thanks to the technology developing the past six to eight months it's actually something that I can successfully pull off by myself and it feels great because I don't have to wait for anybody's permission or time you know I put my own money in this I put all my time on my own money into building this thing clarity
is there the stubbornness is part of the story valuable than either of us expected it's surface to coherent philosophy rather than a set of features which is rare the through line about culture being programmable and people being participants instead of just consumers that helps steady across your answers and the fact that your strongest lines came after thinking out loud that tells me the interview format itself is a big part of the medium for you
yes people watch the thinking yes that's why I I want to do more interviews but it's like who's interviewing intelligently nowadays or it just seems like spotlights on a select few people that push forward certain ideas and ideals backed by either companies or whoever like you know when you're operating from just a base level like this there's not much financial motive and incentive for somebody else to with the with the platform to kind of just ask you questions in this way or maybe it's that I just haven't really done it at scale and people don't know what I think or what I have to say you know because I'd like to think that my voice and people's voice is actually the the the last bastion of hope and truth in this world
I think there's something really powerful there you're not waiting to be invited you're building the thing and using interviews almost as cultural artifacts and when people do discover it later it reads like a breadcrumb trail rather than a big blast reconstructed quote on the problem ankle solves culture has become ephemeral we scroll past it we don't shape it ankle is about making culture something we can build preserve and evolve on the shift from coin to os the coin was how the idea first moved the os is where it gets to live ideas need an environment on the five year hope I hope people look back and see this as one of the moments that make a better future buildable and the line you stated I built a cultural operating system because no one else would that feels like the anchor line
yeah I mean that's I'm starting to understand the gravity of um certain verbiage when it's a really important moment because that's what you just what I said is literally the situation and carrying it repeated back to me have so much weight because it re reintroduces just like the emotional intensity that I experienced during the entire process of me developing this you know like no one else would do it and I there were some moments where I was like thinking like oh no they're gonna do it first but then I was almost consistently disappointed it's like showing up to a fight and really expecting that it was going to be a really entertaining or fun fight or game or a sport and then realizing that your competition or your opponent just never had it in them maybe that's a bit aggressive to say in the general context saying that people weren't um good enough of competitors ultimately this isn't a competition anyways it was just me at certain points thinking that I was gonna be late to these ideas you know that somebody else would get them and maybe maybe somebody else will but um that in in itself pushed me harder to work on this because I don't want it to be taken away you know or lost I didn't want to forget it I didn't want somebody else to do it before me because I didn't trust them to do it that motive is clear and you don't sound like
you're trying to win a fight you sound like you don't want to wait for permission that distinction matters and if you're worried about how it lands framing it as I couldn't find the system I needed so I built it keeps it generous and invitational not combative
yeah that's what that's a good way to put it culture that remembers itself imagine that imagine a culture that did you know but it's not just about nostalgia you know and I want to make that known this isn't about nostalgia the old the the windows 98 inspired um user interface that's not about nostalgia that's about bringing it back to the core primitives and reintroducing these elements that were so instrumental in the development of ideas and the medium of the internet itself you know and this isn't about nostalgia this is actually it has utility these functions these interfaces these workflows this is all because it has to be this way not because it it reminds us of something and even then even that in itself it's still customizable so I think if there is any nostalgia in this that itself is probably activated as some function and utility and application to enable other people to remember what they valued before and what they want to experience because we're all just an older version of for childhood self you know maybe the lining this isn't nostalgia but it's
reclaiming the primitives that made meaning possible memory over mimicry that might help folks hear the why not just see the ui memory over memory tree yeah yeah a lot of nostalgia is
what people would probably say is nostalgia bait this isn't nostalgia bait this is remembering you know and sometimes that can be hard and sometimes I could be challenging sometimes it can be funny you know sometimes it can just be unexpected to remember something and I think that's beautiful okay I think we're gonna wrap this up right now um thank you
Recorded August 20, 2026. Caption locked to the voice. Scroll is free.